Friday, September 24

Joseph Smith and Eternal Spirits

 One of the biggest barriers as I see it to the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints fully accepting gay marriage and allowing members of the same gender to be sealed to each other in the temple is the idea that there is a doctrine that we are literally the spirit children of Heavenly Father and a (perhaps one of many) Heavenly Mother, and that one of the main purposes of eternal marriage is more a man and his wife (or wives, as the church still fully teaches eternal polygamy) to be exalted to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and then have spirit children of their own, following the pattern by which we were created spiritually.  Though it is not usually explicitly stated, there is definitely the idea that, similar to how spirits are brought into mortal bodies on this earth, the heterosexual sex act between an exalted man and an exalted woman is a necessary part of creating these spirit children,  ant that therefore, there would be no point in sealing a man to a man or a woman to a woman, as their eternal union would not be able to produce spirit children, just as such a union in this life is not able to produce mortal children.  But, where did this doctrine come from?  Do we have any specific scriptural support for these ideas?  Is this an eternal doctrine, or perhaps a false idea that has somehow crept into the LDS culture over the decades, similar to the (now) false idea that black people were restricted from priesthood and temple participation because of some misdeed in our pre-mortal existence?

In fact, I recently listened to an interesting podcast on this subject from Radio Free Mormon in which he points out that the idea that our spirits were created by Heavenly Father, whether through heavenly sex or any other process, is very explicitly contradicted by the teaching of Joseph Smith, specifically in the King Follet discourse which he gave a couple of months before he was killed.  In that talk, we find the following sections:

"I have another subject to dwell on which is calculated to exalt man, but it isn’t possible for me to say much but to touch upon it. Time will not permit me to say all. So I must come to what I wish to speak of—the resurrection of the dead—the soul—the immortal spirit—the mind of man. Where did it come from? All doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning, but it is not so. The very idea lessens the character of man, in my estimation. I don’t believe the doctrine. Hear it, all ye ends of the earth: I know better for God has told me so. I will make a man appear a fool before he gets through. If he doesn’t believe it, it won’t make the truth without effect. I am going to tell of things more noble. We say that God Himself is a self-existent God. Who told you so? It’s correct enough, but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principle? [He refers to the Bible.] How does it read in the Hebrew? It doesn’t say so in the old Hebrew. God made the tabernacle of man out of the earth and put into him Adam’s spirit (which was created before), and then it became a living body or human soul. Man existed in spirit; the mind of man—the intelligent part— is as immortal as, and is coequal with, God Himself. I know that my testimony is true."

"Hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? You who mourn the loss of friends are only separated for a small moment from their spirits, and their spirits are only separated from their bodies for a short season. But their spirits existed coequal with God and they now exist in a place where they hold converse together one with another the same as we do on the earth. Does not this give you satisfaction? I want to reason more on the spirit of man for I am dwelling on the immutability of the spirit and on the body of man—on the subject of the dead. Is it logical to say that a spirit is immortal and yet have a beginning? Because if a spirit of man had a beginning, it will have an end, but it does not have a beginning or end. This is good logic and is illustrated by my ring. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal spirit—because it has no beginning or end. Suppose you cut it in two—as the Lord lives there would be a beginning and an end. So it is with man. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who come and say that man had a beginning, prove that he must have an end. If that doctrine be true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, then I might with boldness proclaim from the housetop that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God Himself could not create Himself. Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. The first principles of man are self-existent with God. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement and improvement. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. God Himself found Himself in the midst of spirits and glory. Because He was greater He saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest, who were less in intelligence, could have a privilege to advance like Himself and be exalted with Him, so that they might have one glory upon another in all that knowledge, power, and glory. So He took in hand to save the world of spirits."

"This is good doctrine. It tastes good. You say honey is sweet and so do I. I can also taste the spirit and principles of eternal life, and so can you. I know it is good and that when I tell you of these words of eternal life that are given to me by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the revelations of Jesus Christ, you are bound to receive them as sweet. You taste them and I know you believe them. I rejoice more and more."

Ok, so right there, in his final, most evolved teachings on the subject, Joseph Smith taught that all of us have existed as spirits eternally.  Our spirits were never created and that our relationship with God is because he was in a position of greater intelligence than us, so he designed the plan of salvation to help us to progress in our own intelligence.  So, according to this teaching, when we say that Heavenly Father is the father of our spirits, we do not mean that He created our spirits, because we see that Joseph clearly taught that our spirits are co-eternal with God.  Our relationship to Him as a parent seems similar to our speaking of our nation's founding fathers - he is our father in that he led the way and designed and put in place a system of progression for us.  But given that our spirits have always existed, it seems safe to assume that any spirits that we, as exalted celestial beings, may eventually help in a similar God-like role, also already exist at this time, as they have eternally.  Therefore, there is no need for an exalted man and an exalted woman to create spirit children because they already exist.  Therefore, the purposes of their eternal union, which I assume many of us would hope includes the continued enjoyment of a sexual relationship, do not include "spiritual procreation", and thus there is not an obvious doctrinal reason that an eternal union of two exalted beings of the same gender would not be able to accomplish all of the same purposes as an eternal heterosexual union.  RFM pointed out in his podcast that more fully accepting this doctrine, as taught by the first prophet of the restoration, could open the door to revelation that solves the church's current problem of discrimination against members are attracted to people of the same rather than opposite gender by allowing these members to fully participate in the gospel.

9 comments:

  1. Thanks for sharing more of your beliefs Mark.

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  2. That was a lot to read when you could have just quoted D&C 93:30 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

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  3. Also I don’t see that as one of the biggest barriers to sealing gay couples. In fact I have never thought of that as a barrier. But I also don’t think the church is ever going to perform sealings for same sex couples.

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  4. Kevin, that's interesting; I've always heard of this as the biggest barrier to same sex marriage and sealing. What do you see as the doctrinal basis for prohibiting it?

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  5. Possibly that is my naivety because I have never talked with anyone about barriers to same sex sealing so it would be impossible for me to have heard that.
    I would think the biggest barriers would be the law of chastity and the family proclamation.

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  6. Kevin, are you saying that according to D&C 93:30, that our spirits are co-eternal with God or the intelligences which became our spirits are co-eternal with God? Because I had always been taught that intelligences were eternal, but our spirits were created by God. But in the King Follet discourse, Joseph clearly taught that our spirits were not created by God. I agree that we can certainly interpret D&C 93:30 as agreeing with that, but that isn't the way I've been taught it, so obviously some at least are interpreting it differently, so I think the words I quoted above make it more obvious than just that verse.

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  7. I agree that the family proclamation is a barrier, but in the future could hold no more weight than the letter from the first presidency written and signed in the 1940's or 1950's (I can't remember the exact date) that said black people could not hold the priesthood because of them being less valiant in the pre-existence, which now not only has been rendered out of date by the 1978 revelation, but is also now denied by the church as ever being revelation from God. If they can do that with a letter written and signed by the former prophet, than they can certainly get a new revelation superseding the family proclamation and then a few decades later they can similarly issue a denial that we don't know why a former prophet wrote those things. Apparently it just has to be far enough in the past that they somehow feel safe saying that the words of a previous prophet were not revelation from God, as they have also done with the Adam God theory which Brigham Young so fervently taught and embraced until he died.

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  8. It was August 17, 1949 under George Albert Smith. Here is a direct quote from the letter signed by the first presidency of the church:

    "The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes."

    Then from the current Race and the Priesthood essay:

    "Today, the Church disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse, or that it reflects unrighteous actions in a premortal life;"

    Way to throw a former prophet under the bus - not only was his statement a "theory", similar to how we now call Brigham Young's teachings the Adam God "Theory" even though he certainly considered it a revealed doctrine rather than a theory, but they also explicitly disavowed it. So the future statement can just say something similar about disavowing previous "theories" that God disapproved of homosexual marriage.

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  9. Still waiting for an answer on whether or not anyone believes that Joseph Smith was talking about spirits (as he said) or intelligences (as the church has modified his words to say on their current website)? Will no one even try to give me a reasonable answer here?

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